Lawyer Robert Bourgi says today that he retired ten years ago from active involvement in the corrupt and secretive system known as la Françafrique, in which he served for more than three decades as an advisor and go-between for French-speaking Africa's richest despots with the rightwing Gaullist movement and its conservative successors.
One of the few surviving veterans of the decried network, he has continued, in the wings, to entertain close relations with leading figures among a section of French conservatives. His name shot back into the headlines last month amid the latest revelations in the scandal-hit presidential election campaign of the conservative Les Républicains party candidate François Fillon.
Fillon, once the favourite in the race, saw his campaign crash after he was placed under investigation for suspected fraud over the employment of his wife Penelope and two of his children as parliamentary assistants for work they allegedly never carried out. He is also suspected of complicity in securing an allegedly fictitious job for his wife with a review owned by a billionaire friend of Fillon’s.
Fillon has strenuously denied any wrongdoing, but his probity has been further called into question after press revelations that he has received gifts from undisclosed benefactors, including two suits worth 13,000 euros made by a high-end luxury Paris tailor. It was eventually discovered that the suits were offered by Bourgi, raising speculation over the relationship between the two men, notably because of Bourgi’s questionable past relations with African dictators.
Mediapart's Fabrice Arfi succeeded in contacting Bourgi by phone in Beirut, where the lawyer has decided to briefly exile himself following what he called the media “pressure” over his generous gifts to Fillon. During the interview, translated from French into English below, Bourgi ends his recent silence to present his version of the events, details his long relationship with Fillon, and touches on the cash sums he says he witnessed being handed to French politicians by African regimes in a system he now disowns.
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Mediapart: Since your name was cited as the person who offered suits to François Fillon, on the sidelines of the principal scandal surrounding the presidential candidate, you have distanced yourself from Paris. Why?
Robert Bourgi: I have distanced myself from Paris for the simple and only reason that the media pressure was very strong and I had been subject – or at least, an attempt was made to subject me – to pressure of a political kind. But the thing is that I’m a free man who doesn’t give in to any pressure.
Mediapart: Pressure for what reason?
R.B.: Let’s say that political friends wanted to spread the good word to me. In Mr Fillon’s camp, and coming from Mr Fillon himself, there was the wish that I should take part in dissipating any doubt over this business, about which I believe I hold the truth.
Mediapart: Which means what? You had contact with François Fillon himself?
R.B.: I spoke to him personally on several occasions. And on several occasions he called upon my solidarity as a Gaullist. Gaullist or not, I know what I did and I don’t have to hide over it. Whereas, during six days, from the Saturday preceding the revelations in the Journal du dimanche up until the following Friday, François Fillon and his very great High Priestess of communications, Anne Méaux, wanted me to say nothing concerning the identity of the person who offered the suite – me. Both called me on the Saturday afternoon [Editor’s note: the day before the publication of the Journal du dimanche report] to ensure that I didn’t say it was me. I asked them why. They told me “You know, it’s the ‘Françafrique’, people will think…”. But what has the ‘Françafrique’ to do with all that? As a result, I was forced to lie for a week. Finally, when Le Monde came out with my name, I confirmed so. I didn’t accept having to hide my identity for a week.
Enlargement : Illustration 1
Mediapart: François Fillon said he was wrong to accept the suits, costing 13,000 euros and paid by check, that you offered him. How did the events take place exactly?
R.B.: I will be very clear, straight and precise. I offered François fillon, for his victory in the primary of the Right, two suits which I paid 13,000 euros for. Moreover, he was very touched by that. It was a gift for an unhoped-for electoral victory. He didn’t know about it [the gift of suits]. It was the Arnys store which called him to tell him that there were two suits waiting for him, offered by Mr Bourgi.
When Mr Fillon called me, the day before the France 2 [television] programme L’Émission politique, to tell me that, in the end, he was going to hand me back the suits, I told him, “François, I offered them to you without you having to ask me”. I asked him whether he had worn them, he said “Yes”. I replied, “But why give them back then?” The day after the programme, it’s true, one of his staff brought the suits back to me. But there were three: Two that he wore during two months and a third, which was a navy-blue blazer and a grey pair of trousers that I offered him, in 2014, for Christmas.
Mediapart: How exactly does this sort of thing take place – do you call François Fillon to tell him “go round to Arnys, there are two suits waiting for you”?
R.B.: I went to Arnys in November 2016, the day after the primary. I told the store to get in touch with Mr Fillon who I’m offering two suits to. I don’t even know the material he chose afterwards. But it’s not me who introduced François Fillon to Arnys. Remember, he was wearing an outdoor jacket from Arnys when he arrived at the [French president’s holiday retreat in southern France] fort of Brégançon to meet with president Sarkozy, in 2009 or 2010,. He was a faithful client of the brand. The police, which is doing a good job, can confirm what I say.
Mediapart: You’re not behind any of the other gifts of Arnys clothing offered to Mr Fillon, and which were paid for in cash?
R.B.: Apart from these three sets, I have never offered anything else to Mr. Fillon.
Enlargement : Illustration 2
Mediapart: So where are these suits now?
R.B.: They are no longer with me. They are in the hands of the police in [the financial crime headquarters in] Nanterre. I’m not going to keep them at home!
Mediapart: What are your thoughts regarding the reaction of François Fillon concerning yourself?
R.B.: There are two. With [French TV presenter and interviewer, David] Pujadas, he had very strong words towards me. He said he had esteem and respect for me. But where I was angered, it’s when he went along to [the programme of TV and radio interviewer] Jean-Jacques Bourdin on RMC where he said that I was an old man, disengaged from any responsibilities. That I could not put up with. If one looks at Mr Fillon’s entourage, many of his collaborators, friends or companions are older than me. I could cite, for example, Bernard Debré, who’s from 1944. And when he says that I have no responsibilities, I well wonder why he called upon my advice so often.
Mediapart: Have you offered suits to other political figures in the past?
R.B.: Never.
Mediapart: How did you first meet François Fillon?
R.B.: François Fillon is a secret man who compartmentalises a great deal. Ninety-nine percent of his staff and those who support him – without fully supporting him, concerning some – didn’t know that we see each other. François Fillon is a longstanding friend. I know him since the end of the 1970s when he was alongside the Member of Parliament [and Gaullist politician whose political fiefdom in the north-west France became that of Fillon] Joël Le Theule. Following from that, we used to see each other often. He came to my practice, we lunched together, we snacked together, and lots and lots of things, minister or not. And when he was prime minister, he invited me two or three times to have lunch or drinks at his quarters at [the French prime minister’s offices, the Hôtel] Matignon, always as a friend. I never asked him for anything. When we saw each other, he sought my opinions and advice, generally to with African politics.
Mediapart: You have for a long time backed Nicolas Sarkozy. But in August 2015, one year before François Fillon’s public attack against Sarkozy, when he referred to the latter’s implication in corruption scandals by asking “who could General de Gaulle placed under investigation?”, you went, upon his invitation, to Sablé-sur-Sarthe, Fillon’s political fiefdom. Was it a form of political support, one year before the conservative Les Républicains party’s primary elections?
R.B.: I told Nicolas Sarkozy beforehand. As I have always said, Nicolas Sarkozy has always been, urbi et orbi, the candidate of my heart. I said to him, “I don’t want you to hear about it from the gang, but I’m going to the meeting of François at Sablé, Because his ideas, like those of Alain Juppé, about the [wearing of the Muslim] veil, about immigration, seemed to me much closer to my ideas than what you say on those issues.” It was the one and only reason. But I’ve always said that I was for Nicolas Sarkozy.
But I was not present in 2016 when François Fillon made that often-cited comment on General de Gaulle – and all the better for him. A few days later, in September, François Fillon and I had breakfast at the Ritz to talk about Gabon. At the end of the breakfast, I criticised him for his phrase against Nicolas Sarkozy. He shouldn’t have said that. He was his [Sarkozy’s] prime minister for five years. He served him loyally. Things like that are not to be said. Did he know what the future held? Being placed under investigation is not guilt. He said to me, “You know, it was the atmosphere, I was taken, but I regret it”. But the harm was done.
« Mes Mémoires ne sortiront jamais »
Mediapart: That said, underneath it all, you who learnt the ropes with de Gaulle’s ‘Mr. Africa’, Jacques Foccart, “who could General de Gaulle placed under investigation?” is true, is it not?
R.B.: It’s unthinkable. But we were in 2016. General de Gaulle should have been left to one side. François Fillon, when he says that on the advice of certain people, he wanted to hurt Nicolas Sarkozy. Today, Nicolas Sarkozy’s electorate, which is powerful and solid, could remember those words.
Mediapart: With the legal situation Nicolas Sarkozy is in, implicated in several judicial investigations, and now that of François Fillon, his former prime minister, does that not shock you? Do you not see a disintegration of republican spirit?
R.B.: We have a candidate who is placed under investigation – Nicolas Sarkozy no longer being in the game. Is it thinkable for a single moment that a man placed under investigation could be a candidate in an election in Anglo-Saxon countries? It is unimaginable. Lots of people have reproached Fillon over that. I’m thinking for example of [conservative politician and rival of Fillon in the primaries, who subsequently joined Fillon’s election campaign team before resigning over the latter’s decision to continue with his bid after being placed under investigation]Bruno Le Maire, who had a truly Gaulliist attitude. And of [Fillon’s principal rival in the primaries, Bordeaux mayor] Alain Juppé, who is not one of my friends, but who is the person who had the most dignified attitude when he said at Bordeaux, the day he renounced [from taking over as conservative candidate], that he knew the stink bombs were going to come out and he wanted to protect his family.
Mediapart: To your knowledge, did the Sarkozy camp hold the allusion to General de Gaulle against François Fillon, to the point of seeking revenge?
R.B.: I’m going to cause a clamour among the Fillon camp, and perhaps that of Sarkozy, but I’m afraid of the 1981 scenario when Mr [Jacques] Chirac [when the former president was rival for leadership of the French Right] or his partisans made [outgoing rightwing president seeking a second term] Valéry Giscard d’Estaing pay a heavy price [with revelations of gifts of diamonds he received from African dictator Jean-Bédel Bokassa] for what he had done to Jacques Chirac. And it was thanks to Jacques Chirac that [socialist candidate François] Mitterrand was elected. Everyone knows that. I’m afraid of the reaction of true Gaullists and true Sarkozy-ists.
Mediapart: What does that mean? That you think that the Sarkozy camp could be behind François Fillon’s woes?
R.B.: I didn’t say that, but you know the anecdote about the cord that gives support to the hanged.
Mediapart: And what about the hypothesis of a “secret cell” at the Elysée Palace which François Fillon has claimed is working to destroy his presidential bid?
R.B.: I don’t believe it. Absolutely not.
Mediapart: Did you know that Penelope Fillon worked for her husband?
R.B.: I’ve only known Penelope Fillon through her photos. Even when I went to see François at Sablé-sur-Sarthe [in north-west France, where the Fillon’s family home is situated], as a friend, we would lunch at a restaurant. I know nothing of his family entourage.
Mediapart: In 2011, with the publication of French investigative journalist Pierre Pean’s book La République des mallettes (The suitcase republic) how you witnessed the handing over of cash sums to French politicians, notably Jacques Chirac and former prime minister Dominique de Villepin. Would you say that there is class of political leaders which is too tempted by what in Africa they call “the paper”, in other words money?
R.B.: When I made those statements in September 2011, I felt in my innermost self that the time had come for one of the last actors of the ‘Françafrique’, of this obscure side of the ‘Françafrique’, could lift the veil on obsolete practices. I didn’t want any more of it. These practices, which I am not involved in any more, since 2007, existed at every level of French politics. But I personally have never carried suitcases [of cash]. I explained myself before the financial crime police services and to the doyen of examining magistrates, Roger Le Loire. I only accompanied the emissaries of heads of state who carried the offerings to certain French political parties.
Concerning my experience over a period of 30 years, the only political figure who was approached about this question [of financing] by African heads of state and myself and who refused with a firm “niet”, was Raymond Barre when he was presidential candidate in 1988.
Mediapart: Does that signify that others did not say “niet”?
R.B.: It means what it means. There was only Raymond Barre who said no. I can still see his face.
Mediapart: There is a much-awaited but always absent subject surrounding your name, which is the publication of your memoirs, about which even just the rumours of their existence are said to cause trembling among many figures in Paris. What is the situation with these memoires?
R.B.: The memoirs are written, finished. There remains only the sending of the final proofs, which i will never sign off. I informed publishing house Robert Laffont and Laurent Valdiguié, the journalist from [French weekly] the JDD who interviewed me for the writing of the book. My memoires will never appear because I decided that would be more useful and opportune for the tranquillity of certain people. Too many of the actors and people cited are still alive. I let them get on with politics. However, I envisage handing them over to the National Archives, to be opened only several decades after my return to the eternal. It needs to be understood that it is not a soppy novel, my memoires, which also have an annex. That signifies that there are also a few documents. I have been involved in, seen and heard lots of things. I want to place my family in safety. Researchers will interest themselves with all that later.
Mediapart: Have you received threats?
R.B.: No, none. I would have immediately said so to the Ministry of the Interior and to the [intelligence] services. It is with consciousness that I made this decision.
Mediapart: You were very close to Omar Bongo, the late former president of Gabon. His son and successor, also called Ali, was in 2016 elected to a second term of office as president of the country in a vote which the international community denounced as having been massively rigged. What is your view on this?
As small as it was, Gabon, under Omar Bongo, was a country which was listened to. When Omar Bongo decided something, it was done. The current situation in Gabon is disastrous. I don’t want to play at being the soothsayer, but I believe the days of Ali Bongo [the son] are numbered. Don’t be astonished if, in the weeks to come, there is a major social movement in Gabon. It would be a good thing. The confiscation of power by the same family over half a century is unacceptable. Ali Bongo [the son] literally stole the election from his rival, Jean Ping. He behaved like a despot, a dictator and a killer. That was what was denounced by the intyernational community. I regret that in 2009 I obtained agreement from Nicolas Sarkozy that he would give a little help for Ali Bongo’s first election in 2009.
Mediapart: The first round of the presidential election in France is coming up soon. Who will you vote for?
[Emmanuel] Macron [the maverick centrist candidate] makes me think of a flytrap. Frankly, I can’t imagine myself voting for someone other than François Fillon. It’s my tribe. But I wouldn’t dare say that I vote for the winner. You know who is my second [choice of] candidate?
Mediapart: No.
It would be [radical-left candidate Jean-Luc] Mélenchon. Let him forgive me, it’s because he’s a trouble-maker. I like that.
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- The French version of this interview can be found here.
English version by Graham Tearse