It is her first interview since being questioned by detectives. On Tuesday April 30th Mathilde Panot, a Member of Parliament for the radical-left La France Insoumise (LFI) and president of her party's group of MPs in the National Assembly, was questioned for several hours at a police station following accusations that she was an “apologist” for or had glorified “terrorism”. On the same day her fellow party member Rima Hassan, a leading candidate in next month's European elections, was also questioned over similar claims.
Mathilde Panot later told Mediapart what happened when she was questioned by investigators. In particular, she expressed her concern about the muzzling of political opponents and, more generally, about the “criminalization of voices supporting peace” in the Middle East, since the Hamas attacks in Israel on October 7th 2023. She believes this downwards spiral in France dates back to the “yellow vest” protest movement of 2018 to 2019.
Mediapart: You were questioned by detectives on Tuesday. How did it go?
Mathilde Panot: First of all, I want to thank all the organizations, activists, citizens, and politicians who gathered on Tuesday morning to reaffirm their commitment to freedom of expression and to denounce the criminalization of voices that support peace. Being questioned over claims of being an “apologist” for terrorism is no small matter. It's not a “mere formality”. I'm fortunate to have strong public support. That's not the case for dozens of other people who are also being summonsed in a completely absurd and unjust manner for the same reasons, and who are sometimes even subjected to searches.
Enlargement : Illustration 1
What we're seeing in our country is an unprecedented headlong rush towards authoritarianism. Conferences have been cancelled, trade union leaders convicted, the media harassed, anti-terrorism methods applied to political opponents [editor's note, see here]. The entire authoritarian bourgeoisie in power has mobilized against the peace camp. In what kind of democracy does the president of a Parliamentary opposition group find herself having to justify her political opinions to detectives? Emmanuel Macron has created a new thought police.
As for the questioning itself, the questions were related to our political stances. I felt like I was reliving certain interviews in television studios that resemble interrogations more than discussions. The questions were almost identical.
This summons, like Rima Hassan's, is therefore part of a context in which the justice system and the police are being used for electoral gain.
How far will this government go? Will they summon the United Nations, [French news agency] AFP, or even Amnesty International for being apologists for terrorism, as they refuse to label organizations as terrorists in order to remain within the framework of international law? I chose to stick to a preliminary statement that I made public. These abuses of power that dishonour our country and tarnish its image in the eyes of the world must stop. As [French novelist Gustave] Flaubert wrote, censorship is an attack on thought.
Mediapart: What exactly have you been accused of?
M.P.: I obviously asked what the comments were that led to this summons. The crime squad showed me a Tweet which echoed the Parliamentary group's statement of October 7th 2023. I asked which phrases or words related to such a serious accusation. They replied that it was the entire communiqué. Does saying “Israel/Palestine: for a just and lasting peace. Stop the escalation” or “we must have a ceasefire” now amount to apologia for terrorism? It's absurd and dangerous.
France has already been condemned, in 2022, by the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) for how it punishes alleged “apologia for terrorism”. And considering that this was a statement from my Parliamentary group, I'd point out that parliamentarians have been protected from prosecution since the French Revolution, not as a privilege, but to ensure their freedom of speech, the independence of their office, and to protect them from pressures from the executive.
Mediapart: With hindsight, would you rewrite the statement differently today?
M.P.: No. The purpose of this statement was to sound the alarm over the risk of escalation and urge everyone to take responsibility to prevent unrest in the region. We called for a ceasefire. That remains our stance. Unfortunately, subsequent events have proved that our concerns were valid; the report from Francesca Albanese, the UN Special Rapporteur, highlighting the genocidal dimension of the Israeli offensive in Gaza, the International Court of Justice's acknowledgement of the risk of genocide, recent discoveries of mass graves, the daily toll of children killed by bombings, and the weaponization of famine. These are the facts that everyone should be tirelessly working to denounce.
I'm proud that my Parliamentary group was the only one in the National Assembly to refuse to applaud the “unconditional support” for [Israeli prime minister Benjamin] Netanyahu, and proud to have always spoken the language of international law. We have clearly condemned the war crimes committed by Hamas. We have stated each time that no war crime justifies other war crimes and that all human lives are equal, without exception.
We will not stop working for an immediate ceasefire, for a ban on arms sales to Netanyahu's far-right government, for the suspension of the European Union-Israel Association Agreement, and for the recognition of Palestine.
Mediapart: Will you be able to discover the real story behind this legal saga before the European elections in June?
M.P.: You're right to highlight the approach of the European elections. The complaint against me dates back to October 11th, the day after the publication of [justice minister] Éric Dupond-Moretti's circular, which encouraged prosecutors to pursue apologists for terrorism over statements “even if these are made in the context of a public interest debate and claiming to be part of a political discourse”. If I had really been an apologist for terrorism, would they have waited almost seven months to summons me? No one believes that. This summons, like Rima Hassan's, belongs to a context in which the justice system and the police are being used for electoral gain.
Mediapart: Can you see a political influence behind this affair?
I would say political influences. The individuals who filed the complaint are close to the far-right in government in Israel. The same as those who organize campaigns of harassment and threats against LFI MPs - since October, we've regularly been the target of waves of threatening and insulting calls, and some of us have even been physically attacked.
But it was indeed the public prosecutor's office that chose to follow up on these complaints within the framework of the October 10th circular that I mentioned earlier. A circular which the president of the CNCDH [editor's note, the French government's human rights advisory and consultative body the Commission Nationale Consultative des Droits de l'Homme] is concerned “may have led to a confusion between approval, praise for a crime and/or criminals, and positions relating to the context in which they were committed” and believes that “these fall within a debate of ideas and should therefore benefit from freedom of expression”. Just as the ruling majority has helped subject us to censorship, for example by demanding the banning of our conferences. By “we” I include all those committed to a ceasefire and the defence of the Palestinian people's rights. But I have noticed harassment of [La France] Insoumise in particular.
You just have listen again to the response from the minister of justice [on Tuesday] afternoon to [senior LFI MP] Manuel Bompard who questioned him about these summonses, to understand that he's involved in a personal battle against us. This focus on us both puts us in danger and dishonours his office. We are the main opposition force on the Left. This makes us their main target.
Mediapart: In the end, doesn't the disproportion nature of these proceedings benefit you in terms of the European elections?
M.P.: The excessive police and judicial repression benefits no one. We've criticised the government's authoritarian drift since its previous term of office. The gouged eyes of the 'yellow vests' [editor's note, a reference to the number of demonstrators who lost an eye as a result of police actions during that popular protest movement], the arrest of people protesting against pension reform, the global security law, the repression of environmental protesters, the ideological attacks on higher education, the measures put in place for the forthcoming Olympic Games [in Paris].
All of this stems from an ever more pronounced infringement of our basic freedoms. No one will emerge unscathed from it. I would also caution our political rivals who, out of political calculation, allow attacks against the LFI to take place without protest. They're not immune to being the next victims. I issue this warning because there are only two possible attitudes when faced with authoritarianism: you either give way to it, or resist it!
Mediapart: What's your view on the ongoing union, student, and political repression?
I want to salute the young people who personify the honour of our country and of the world, I salute them as they are on the front-line of repression. From Columbia University to Sciences Po [university in France], this movement is not just one of indignation or a cry of anger, it's a demonstration of our common humanity. The authorities should remember that it was precisely the repression of young people that amplified the peace movement against the Vietnam War. They will not prevail over the peoples of the world who are rising up everywhere against the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people. The popular reaction to Emmanuel Macron's authoritarianism is also evident in all our packed public meetings: more than 1,000 people in Grenoble and 250 in Bezons in Val-d'Oise [north-west of Paris] yesterday, 350 in Trappes [in the western suburbs of Paris]. Last Thursday, there were 450 of us at Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray [in Normandy]..
Mediapart: How do you plan to use this period to set out the next steps for the Left?
M.P.: As we have always done, by boldly championing our convictions. By refusing to stay silent. And I invite all those who fight for their ideas, for peace, against the dismantling of public services, for a fairer distribution of wealth, for a society based on mutual assistance, to hold their heads up high. We continue to uphold the manifesto of the Nouvelle Union Populaire Écologique et Sociale [editor's note, NUPES, the broad-left coalition that fought the last Parliamentary elections] and the strategy of the Union Populaire [editor's note, the grouping that supported the LFI's Jean-Luc Mélenchon in his 2022 presidential bid]. No political attack will make us change the ideas we support. This is how we will forge the coming future: with our heads held high.
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- The original French version of this interview can be found here.
English version by Michael Streeter