'If Monsieur Hortefeux says so, it's surely true'
In the tapped September 14th conversation with Gaubert, Hortefeux told him that "Apparently Hélène is spilling a lot." Gaubert replied: "Yes but what information do you have on that, because to me she says she isn't saying anything?"
To which Hortefeux warned him: "Yes, er, er, but it bothers me to tell you on the phone" later adding: "It seems that there are lots, lots of things" and "she knows, she was very, very aware of your activities."
Hortefeux invited Gaubert to meet at the end of the afternoon the following day, September 15th. "Make sure you come round", he insisted.
Now Mediapart has learnt that following that meeting on September 15th, Gaubert travelled to the home of his estranged wife and confronted her with the claim that she had handed over to Judge Van Ruymbeke's investigation a USB flash drive (a data storage stick for computers).
Mediapart understands that the flash drive contained a recording of a conversation between the pair in which Gaubert can be heard telling her what to say under questioning. This included his demand that she takes responsibility for a bank account opened in her name in the Bahamas, and which he allegedly used for his own purposes. The existence of the account was discovered by police officers during a search of Gaubert's Paris home on July 5th.
While Mediapart had reported the existence of a sound recording of the conversation as evidence in the case, it was until now not reported this was contained on a USB flash drive. Gaubert has denied putting pressure on his estranged wife to give a false statement
On September 19th Hélène Gaubert gave a statement to Van Ruymbeke recounting Gaubert's confrontation with her over her submission of the USB evidence on September 15th.
"Monsieur Thierry Gaubert was indeed in possession of elements [of information] that were not available in the press," Hélène Gaubert's lawyer, Léa Forestier, told Mediapart.
As Mediapart has revealed, Hortefeux, Gaubert and others among President Sarkozy's close friends and aides enjoyed intimate relations with arms dealer Ziad Takieddine, the intermediary at the heart of the alleged funding scam (see the first in the series of Mediapart's investigations into Takieddine's role and relationship with the presidential entourage here). Hortefeux, like Gaubert, enjoyed holidaying with Takieddine and his British wife Nicola, from whom the Franco-Lebanese broker was acrimoniously divorced last month (see here and here). Nicola Johnson has since, like Hélène Gaubert, become a key witness to Van Ruymbeke's investigation into the activities of Takieddine and other suspects in the suspected funding
In the tapped September 14th conversation with Gaubert, Hortefeux referred to the divorce procedures of Hélène and Nicola.
"You didn't tell me that Nicola and Hélène's lawyer was the same," he told Gaubert. "The fact that they have the same lawyer gave me a slap...that impressed me, that they have the same lawyer [...] It means that they talk together, that they're giving each other notions."
Like the existence of the USB flash drive, the fact that the two women are represented by the same Paris legal team had not been mentioned in the press. However, Gaubert, questioned by police on September 20th about his conversation with Hortefeux, declared: ""I asked Monsieur Hortefeux for an explanation because I wanted to know what she [Hélène] said. I thought that, as former Minister of the Interior, he could have had some information. It's he who at the beginning spoke to me about Hélène's questioning. If he had not spoken to me about it, I wouldn't have asked him anything. I don't know how he had the information, perhaps from the press."
Contacted by Mediapart this week, Brice Hortefeux denied informing Gaubert of the existence of the USB voice recording. "I never spoke to Gaubert about this business of a USB flash drive," he said. "He didn't obtain this information from me. I have had no access to any element of the witness statements." Hortefeux also insisted that he had discovered the fact that Hélène Gaubert and Nicolas Johnson shared the same legal counsel "through a lawyer".
Also contacted by Mediapart, Thierry Gaubert denied speaking to his wife about the existence of the USB stick. "My wife, she says lots of things, I have never talked to her about this USB flash drive," Gaubert said. "My wife has never used a USB flash drive, it's as if you were to ask me to fly a helicopter, so somebody did it for her."
Gaubert also insisted that, during his meeting with Hortefeux on September 15th, the former interior minister "said nothing more" further to the phone conversation they had held the previous day. He then concluded, ambiguously: "What's more, I don't know if I saw him. If Monsieur Hortefeux says so, it's surely true, but it didn't strike me."
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For more on this story and Mediapart's exclusive investigations into the political scandal surrounding the activities of arms dealer Ziad Takieddine, click on the links below:
French judge finds key evidence in illegal funding probe
British divorcee becomes key witness in French political funding scandal
Net closes in on French presidency after funding 'scam' arrests
Arms dealer probe brings illegal funding scandal closer to Sarkozy
The secret financier who brings danger to the Sarkozy clan
Sarkozy, the arms dealer, and a secret 350 million-euro commission
The well-connected arms dealer and his tax returns
How Sarkozy aides saved arms dealer from paradise island 'death blow'
Exclusive: how Sarkozy's team sought grace for Gaddafi's murderous henchman
The arms dealer and his Paris party for the glitterati
Exlusive: how President Sarkozy's team dealt with Gaddafi
When Total paid the bill for the Elysée's secret emissary
How French intelligence shields the sarkozy clan's unofficial emissary
Divorce court freezes arms broker's assets
The French-built stealth offroader that may be hiding Gaddafi
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English version: Graham Tearse